13 Mar
2025
13 Mar
'25
3:50 p.m.
Gary, computers are hard and shouldn't be used by retired folks. :) Run it
like below, it will load last. Use AI for docs - much easier and faster
than our brains.
Type=idle
Behavior of idle is very similar to simple; however, actual execution of
the service program is delayed until all active jobs are dispatched. This
may be used to avoid interleaving the output of shell services with the
status output on the console. Note that this type is useful only to improve
console output, it is not useful as a general unit ordering tool, and the
effect of this service type is subject to a 5s timeout, after which the
service program is invoked anyway.
https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html
Kevin
8 Aug
8 Aug
1:27 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
The following message was in the queue as being from a non-subscriber. I
rarely check these things....
Brian
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 03:50:43PM -0700, Kevin Brisson wrote:
Gary, computers are hard and shouldn't be used
by retired folks. :) Run
it like below, it will load last. Use AI for docs - much easier and
faster than our brains.
Type=idle
Behavior of idle is very similar to simple; however, actual execution
of the service program is delayed until all active jobs are dispatched.
This may be used to avoid interleaving the output of shell services
with the status output on the console. Note that this type is useful
only to improve console output, it is not useful as a general unit
ordering tool, and the effect of this service type is subject to a 5s
timeout, after which the service program is invoked anyway.
[1]https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.serv
ice.html
Kevin
References
1. https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html
--
Brian Lavender
https://www.brie.com/brian/
"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other
way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
Professor C. A. R. Hoare
The 1980 Turing award lecture
9 Aug
9 Aug
8:33 a.m.
New subject: Systemd
I believe this was already posted to the list back in March, which is when it is dated. I
haven't saved my emails since back then and would have to check the archive to get the
context. But, I believe I was complaining about the overarching and unnecesarily complex
nature of systemd :)
As an aside, as a result of that converstaion, I've looked in to Suspend on the
desktop instead of going through the shutdown and reboot cycle. I haven't done it
yet, but unless you are rebooting to "clean things up", it seems like a better
way to do things and eliminates the need for developing boot scripts to re-establish the
desired system configuration.
And yes, no one is perfect and neither am I :)
On Fri, Aug 08, 2025 at 01:27:35PM -0700, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
The following message was in the queue as being from a
non-subscriber. I
rarely check these things....
Brian
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 03:50:43PM -0700, Kevin Brisson wrote:
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
Gary, computers are hard and shouldn't be
used by retired folks. :) Run
it like below, it will load last. Use AI for docs - much easier and
faster than our brains.
Type=idle
Behavior of idle is very similar to simple; however, actual execution
of the service program is delayed until all active jobs are dispatched.
This may be used to avoid interleaving the output of shell services
with the status output on the console. Note that this type is useful
only to improve console output, it is not useful as a general unit
ordering tool, and the effect of this service type is subject to a 5s
timeout, after which the service program is invoked anyway.
[1]https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.serv
ice.html
Kevin
References
1. https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html
--
Brian Lavender
https://www.brie.com/brian/
"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other
way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
Professor C. A. R. Hoare
The 1980 Turing award lecture
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
7 Nov
7 Nov
12:37 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
I've been giving some thought to playing with systemd and making it actually useful.
I should spend more time with the docs. :)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 03:50:43PM -0700, Kevin Brisson wrote:
Gary, computers are hard and shouldn't be used by
retired folks. :) Run it
like below, it will load last. Use AI for docs - much easier and faster
than our brains.
Type=idle
Behavior of idle is very similar to simple; however, actual execution of
the service program is delayed until all active jobs are dispatched. This
may be used to avoid interleaving the output of shell services with the
status output on the console. Note that this type is useful only to improve
console output, it is not useful as a general unit ordering tool, and the
effect of this service type is subject to a 5s timeout, after which the
service program is invoked anyway.
https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html
Kevin
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
12:45 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
On Fri, Nov 07, 2025 at 12:37:31PM -0800, Gary wrote:
I've been giving some thought to playing with
systemd and making it actually useful. I should spend more time with the docs. :)
Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and systemd should work fine. Is
Slackware still on non systemd?
Brian
--
Brian Lavender
https://www.brie.com/brian/
"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other
way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
Professor C. A. R. Hoare
The 1980 Turing award lecture
1:02 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
Fine is in the eye of the beholder. I've written some units and they end up not
working the way I expect. Like killing and restarting the job until is hits the restart
limit. Things may be "fine" now. I just need to understand why this is
happening.
On Fri, Nov 07, 2025 at 12:45:57PM -0800, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
On Fri, Nov 07, 2025 at 12:37:31PM -0800, Gary wrote:
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
I've been giving some thought to playing with
systemd and making it actually useful. I should spend more time with the docs. :)
Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and systemd should work fine. Is
Slackware still on non systemd?
Brian
--
Brian Lavender
https://www.brie.com/brian/
"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other
way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
Professor C. A. R. Hoare
The 1980 Turing award lecture
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com 
8 Nov
8 Nov
7:09 a.m.
New subject: Systemd
On 11/7/25 12:45, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and systemd
should work fine. Is
Slackware still on non systemd?
Brian
Slackware is still running on sysvinit. Years of
experience with Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS,
Red Hat, FreeBSD, ... haven't has a problem with
sysvinit, have spent dozens of hours "supporting"
systemd. I haven't experienced any tangible benefit,
but from previous posts, and private conversations
on this topic, you do. Could it be because you're
a laptop user? I believe that laptops would be
ideal for me, except that the keyboards are always
a non-starter. I haven't ever tried a laptop
keyboard that didn't make my fingers feel retarded.
--
Chuck Polisher
11 Nov
11 Nov
10:58 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
I've felt that sisvinit is really all you need for a laptop or desktop, or possibly
even a stand alone server.
But, after looking around, I took the path of least resistance and began using distros
that use systemd.
Systemd has a lot of issues. It's monolithic. They went and built something that is
very flexible, and then used it a way that hardly utilizes it. It is way more than
someone with a laptop, desktop, or server really needs. It solves a problem that is
really only a problem for someone who has lots of systems to maintain each of which may
have different configurations. Unfortunately, they didn't make this as easy as it
should be; see not using flexibility previouly mentioned.
It does get around some of the awkwardness of rc.local, for example. If only I could get
it to work. That was an issue with rc.local too,as I recall.
I'm thinking that if I get some time, I'll play around with it.
On Sat, Nov 08, 2025 at 07:09:03AM -0800, Charles Polisher wrote:
On 11/7/25 12:45, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and
systemd should work fine. Is
Slackware still on non systemd?
Brian
Slackware is still running on sysvinit. Years of
experience with Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS,
Red Hat, FreeBSD, ... haven't has a problem with
sysvinit, have spent dozens of hours "supporting"
systemd. I haven't experienced any tangible benefit,
but from previous posts, and private conversations
on this topic, you do. Could it be because you're
a laptop user? I believe that laptops would be
ideal for me, except that the keyboards are always
a non-starter. I haven't ever tried a laptop
keyboard that didn't make my fingers feel retarded.
--
Chuck Polisher
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
25 Nov
25 Nov
2:25 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
So, I've put some more time into this. After learning a lot, I got my ssh -g -R port
to connect using the systemd user unit. But, when I try to use the port, the connection
is made, but hangs before the password prompt. I see lots of examples that look just like
what I am doing that apparently work fine LOL.
I was just at the system I want to connect to, after my most recent changes, and ssh to my
remote system and could connect back using -p xxx localhost. So the tunnel worked, at
least once.
Now, I'm at the remote system. I try ssh -pxxx localhost, and it just hangs after the
client sends the banner. I think this is same as before.
So, when I run my ExecStart command from the command line, it works. But when running it
inside a systemd unit, I have this issue.
It can't be firewall. It can't be network or DNS vs. straight IP. It can't
be almost anything except systemd. But there is nothing in the logs.
I'm thinking the next step is wiresharking everything. But that sounds painful.
Having written cron jobs in the past, I'm sort of used to this kind of mystery. Same
with rc.local stuff, sort of. So it isn't the ultimate condemnation. But, like, it
should work LOL.
Any thoughts?
On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 10:58:40PM -0800, Gary wrote:
I've felt that sisvinit is really all you need for
a laptop or desktop, or possibly even a stand alone server.
But, after looking around, I took the path of least resistance and began using distros
that use systemd.
Systemd has a lot of issues. It's monolithic. They went and built something that is
very flexible, and then used it a way that hardly utilizes it. It is way more than
someone with a laptop, desktop, or server really needs. It solves a problem that is
really only a problem for someone who has lots of systems to maintain each of which may
have different configurations. Unfortunately, they didn't make this as easy as it
should be; see not using flexibility previouly mentioned.
It does get around some of the awkwardness of rc.local, for example. If only I could get
it to work. That was an issue with rc.local too,as I recall.
I'm thinking that if I get some time, I'll play around with it.
On Sat, Nov 08, 2025 at 07:09:03AM -0800, Charles Polisher wrote:
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
On 11/7/25 12:45, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and
systemd should work fine. Is
Slackware still on non systemd?
Brian
Slackware is still running on sysvinit. Years of
experience with Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS,
Red Hat, FreeBSD, ... haven't has a problem with
sysvinit, have spent dozens of hours "supporting"
systemd. I haven't experienced any tangible benefit,
but from previous posts, and private conversations
on this topic, you do. Could it be because you're
a laptop user? I believe that laptops would be
ideal for me, except that the keyboards are always
a non-starter. I haven't ever tried a laptop
keyboard that didn't make my fingers feel retarded.
--
Chuck Polisher
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com 
5:23 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
It's always permissions. B-)
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 3:27 PM Gary <saclug(a)garymcglinn.com> wrote:
So, I've put some more time into this. After
learning a lot, I got my ssh
-g -R port to connect using the systemd user unit. But, when I try to use
the port, the connection is made, but hangs before the password prompt. I
see lots of examples that look just like what I am doing that apparently
work fine LOL.
I was just at the system I want to connect to, after my most recent
changes, and ssh to my remote system and could connect back using -p xxx
localhost. So the tunnel worked, at least once.
Now, I'm at the remote system. I try ssh -pxxx localhost, and it just
hangs after the client sends the banner. I think this is same as before.
So, when I run my ExecStart command from the command line, it works. But
when running it inside a systemd unit, I have this issue.
It can't be firewall. It can't be network or DNS vs. straight IP. It
can't be almost anything except systemd. But there is nothing in the logs.
I'm thinking the next step is wiresharking everything. But that sounds
painful.
Having written cron jobs in the past, I'm sort of used to this kind of
mystery. Same with rc.local stuff, sort of. So it isn't the ultimate
condemnation. But, like, it should work LOL.
Any thoughts?
On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 10:58:40PM -0800, Gary wrote:
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
I've felt that sisvinit is really all you
need for a laptop or desktop,
or possibly even a stand alone server.
But, after looking around, I took the path of least resistance and began
using
distros that use systemd.
Systemd has a lot of issues. It's monolithic. They went and built
something
that is very flexible, and then used it a way that hardly
utilizes it. It is way more than someone with a laptop, desktop, or server
really needs. It solves a problem that is really only a problem for
someone who has lots of systems to maintain each of which may have
different configurations. Unfortunately, they didn't make this as easy as
it should be; see not using flexibility previouly mentioned.
It does get around some of the awkwardness of rc.local, for example. If
only I
could get it to work. That was an issue with rc.local too,as I
recall.
I'm thinking that if I get some time, I'll play around with it.
On Sat, Nov 08, 2025 at 07:09:03AM -0800, Charles Polisher wrote:
> On 11/7/25 12:45, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
> > Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and systemd should work fine.
Is
Slackware still on non systemd?
Brian
Slackware is still running on sysvinit. Years of
experience with Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS,
Red Hat, FreeBSD, ... haven't has a problem with
sysvinit, have spent dozens of hours "supporting"
systemd. I haven't experienced any tangible benefit,
but from previous posts, and private conversations
on this topic, you do. Could it be because you're
a laptop user? I believe that laptops would be
ideal for me, except that the keyboards are always
a non-starter. I haven't ever tried a laptop
keyboard that didn't make my fingers feel retarded.
--
Chuck Polisher
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
8:37 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
Perhaps, but it seems to work intermittently and unpredictably. I looked for contention
on the port, but couldn't find any.
....So, I rebooted the client and restarted the systemd unit/service on the server and
everything works. Interestingly systemctl status for the unit showed that everything was
OK before the restart, but nothing worked.
During the course of all this I learned, what is perhaps obvious, that SSH does a lot of
things at the terminal config level. If something in SSH terminates at an unexpected
point, things can be messed up. Reset should fix this, but apparently not.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it LOL.
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 06:23:03PM -0700, Linus Sphinx wrote:
It's always permissions. B-)
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 3:27 PM Gary <saclug(a)garymcglinn.com> wrote:
> So, I've put some more time into this. After learning a lot, I got my ssh
> -g -R port to connect using the systemd user unit. But, when I try to use
> the port, the connection is made, but hangs before the password prompt. I
> see lots of examples that look just like what I am doing that apparently
> work fine LOL.
>
> I was just at the system I want to connect to, after my most recent
> changes, and ssh to my remote system and could connect back using -p xxx
> localhost. So the tunnel worked, at least once.
>
> Now, I'm at the remote system. I try ssh -pxxx localhost, and it just
> hangs after the client sends the banner. I think this is same as before.
>
> So, when I run my ExecStart command from the command line, it works. But
> when running it inside a systemd unit, I have this issue.
>
> It can't be firewall. It can't be network or DNS vs. straight IP. It
> can't be almost anything except systemd. But there is nothing in the logs.
>
> I'm thinking the next step is wiresharking everything. But that sounds
> painful.
>
> Having written cron jobs in the past, I'm sort of used to this kind of
> mystery. Same with rc.local stuff, sort of. So it isn't the ultimate
> condemnation. But, like, it should work LOL.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 10:58:40PM -0800, Gary wrote:
> > I've felt that sisvinit is really all you need for a laptop or desktop,
> or possibly even a stand alone server.
> >
> > But, after looking around, I took the path of least resistance and began
> using distros that use systemd.
> >
> > Systemd has a lot of issues. It's monolithic. They went and built
> something that is very flexible, and then used it a way that hardly
> utilizes it. It is way more than someone with a laptop, desktop, or server
> really needs. It solves a problem that is really only a problem for
> someone who has lots of systems to maintain each of which may have
> different configurations. Unfortunately, they didn't make this as easy as
> it should be; see not using flexibility previouly mentioned.
> >
> > It does get around some of the awkwardness of rc.local, for example. If
> only I could get it to work. That was an issue with rc.local too,as I
> recall.
> >
> > I'm thinking that if I get some time, I'll play around with it.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 08, 2025 at 07:09:03AM -0800, Charles Polisher wrote:
> > > On 11/7/25 12:45, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
> > > > Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and systemd should work fine.
> Is
> > > > Slackware still on non systemd?
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > Slackware is still running on sysvinit. Years of
> > > experience with Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS,
> > > Red Hat, FreeBSD, ... haven't has a problem with
> > > sysvinit, have spent dozens of hours "supporting"
> > > systemd. I haven't experienced any tangible benefit,
> > > but from previous posts, and private conversations
> > > on this topic, you do. Could it be because you're
> > > a laptop user? I believe that laptops would be
> > > ideal for me, except that the keyboards are always
> > > a non-starter. I haven't ever tried a laptop
> > > keyboard that didn't make my fingers feel retarded.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chuck Polisher
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> >
> > --
> > -Gary
> >
> > It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> > a complex thing to make things simple.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
>
> --
> -Gary
>
> It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> a complex thing to make things simple.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
>
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
8:54 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
I started down this path because I won't always be able to physically access the
server and I don't want the -R port to stop working, as it is the only way I can
access the system to do anything, as it is behind a firewall.
If I just ran the ssh port forward in the background, I could get the famouns "pipe
broken" error. I was hoping systemd would restart if this happened. I don't
think it will, but I'll have to wait and see.
I have the Restart=on-failure. With Restart=always, it wouldn't run and seemed to be
restarting a lot. But, I didn't see any restart limit errors in the logs, so I'm
not exactly sure what was up.
Perhaps I'll look into the watchdog feature. I don't think this will get me
anything though, since systemctl status thinks everything is fine and I have no reason to
believe it wouldn't keep sending the necessary signal.
I'm thinking I'll have to implement my own watchdog feature, which is what I was
hoping to avoid.
I had a lot of issues. I attributed these to systemd. Really, I think it was ssh. But
it does seem that systemd is complex and might be a bit fragile. Lots of logging was
generated but not visible. Gemini/Google suggest that these kind of "terminal
configuration" issues can cause that problem. When things get fixed, the log entries
are there, but it's not optimal.
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 08:37:52PM -0800, Gary wrote:
Perhaps, but it seems to work intermittently and
unpredictably. I looked for contention on the port, but couldn't find any.
....So, I rebooted the client and restarted the systemd unit/service on the server and
everything works. Interestingly systemctl status for the unit showed that everything was
OK before the restart, but nothing worked.
During the course of all this I learned, what is perhaps obvious, that SSH does a lot of
things at the terminal config level. If something in SSH terminates at an unexpected
point, things can be messed up. Reset should fix this, but apparently not.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it LOL.
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 06:23:03PM -0700, Linus Sphinx wrote:
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
It's always permissions. B-)
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 3:27 PM Gary <saclug(a)garymcglinn.com> wrote:
> So, I've put some more time into this. After learning a lot, I got my ssh
> -g -R port to connect using the systemd user unit. But, when I try to use
> the port, the connection is made, but hangs before the password prompt. I
> see lots of examples that look just like what I am doing that apparently
> work fine LOL.
>
> I was just at the system I want to connect to, after my most recent
> changes, and ssh to my remote system and could connect back using -p xxx
> localhost. So the tunnel worked, at least once.
>
> Now, I'm at the remote system. I try ssh -pxxx localhost, and it just
> hangs after the client sends the banner. I think this is same as before.
>
> So, when I run my ExecStart command from the command line, it works. But
> when running it inside a systemd unit, I have this issue.
>
> It can't be firewall. It can't be network or DNS vs. straight IP. It
> can't be almost anything except systemd. But there is nothing in the logs.
>
> I'm thinking the next step is wiresharking everything. But that sounds
> painful.
>
> Having written cron jobs in the past, I'm sort of used to this kind of
> mystery. Same with rc.local stuff, sort of. So it isn't the ultimate
> condemnation. But, like, it should work LOL.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 10:58:40PM -0800, Gary wrote:
> > I've felt that sisvinit is really all you need for a laptop or desktop,
> or possibly even a stand alone server.
> >
> > But, after looking around, I took the path of least resistance and began
> using distros that use systemd.
> >
> > Systemd has a lot of issues. It's monolithic. They went and built
> something that is very flexible, and then used it a way that hardly
> utilizes it. It is way more than someone with a laptop, desktop, or server
> really needs. It solves a problem that is really only a problem for
> someone who has lots of systems to maintain each of which may have
> different configurations. Unfortunately, they didn't make this as easy as
> it should be; see not using flexibility previouly mentioned.
> >
> > It does get around some of the awkwardness of rc.local, for example. If
> only I could get it to work. That was an issue with rc.local too,as I
> recall.
> >
> > I'm thinking that if I get some time, I'll play around with it.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 08, 2025 at 07:09:03AM -0800, Charles Polisher wrote:
> > > On 11/7/25 12:45, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
> > > > Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and systemd should work fine.
> Is
> > > > Slackware still on non systemd?
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > Slackware is still running on sysvinit. Years of
> > > experience with Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS,
> > > Red Hat, FreeBSD, ... haven't has a problem with
> > > sysvinit, have spent dozens of hours "supporting"
> > > systemd. I haven't experienced any tangible benefit,
> > > but from previous posts, and private conversations
> > > on this topic, you do. Could it be because you're
> > > a laptop user? I believe that laptops would be
> > > ideal for me, except that the keyboards are always
> > > a non-starter. I haven't ever tried a laptop
> > > keyboard that didn't make my fingers feel retarded.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chuck Polisher
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> >
> > --
> > -Gary
> >
> > It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> > a complex thing to make things simple.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
>
> --
> -Gary
>
> It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> a complex thing to make things simple.
>
>
>
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>
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9:13 p.m.
New subject: Systemd
I use Ubuntu on my servers and have never had a systemd / ssh issue.
Getting Tomcat to work with systemd can be tricky especially if your
startup sh script gets complex. I’m going to guess you probably have a
permissions issue. If you verified the config I go back and look at
permissions. I
Try changing the port, usually I run mine on 5150 or 2112. Some times like
one dude said earlier. Reinstall distro and start over. :(
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 8:55 PM Gary <saclug(a)garymcglinn.com> wrote:
I started down this path because I won't always be
able to physically
access the server and I don't want the -R port to stop working, as it is
the only way I can access the system to do anything, as it is behind a
firewall.
If I just ran the ssh port forward in the background, I could get the
famouns "pipe broken" error. I was hoping systemd would restart if this
happened. I don't think it will, but I'll have to wait and see.
I have the Restart=on-failure. With Restart=always, it wouldn't run and
seemed to be restarting a lot. But, I didn't see any restart limit errors
in the logs, so I'm not exactly sure what was up.
Perhaps I'll look into the watchdog feature. I don't think this will get
me anything though, since systemctl status thinks everything is fine and I
have no reason to believe it wouldn't keep sending the necessary signal.
I'm thinking I'll have to implement my own watchdog feature, which is what
I was hoping to avoid.
I had a lot of issues. I attributed these to systemd. Really, I think it
was ssh. But it does seem that systemd is complex and might be a bit
fragile. Lots of logging was generated but not visible. Gemini/Google
suggest that these kind of "terminal configuration" issues can cause that
problem. When things get fixed, the log entries are there, but it's not
optimal.
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 08:37:52PM -0800, Gary wrote:
--
-Gary
It is a simple thing to make things complex,
a complex thing to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
Perhaps, but it seems to work intermittently and
unpredictably. I
looked for contention on the port, but couldn't find any.
....So, I rebooted the client and restarted the systemd unit/service on
the server
and everything works. Interestingly systemctl status for the
unit showed that everything was OK before the restart, but nothing worked.
During the course of all this I learned, what is perhaps obvious, that
SSH does a
lot of things at the terminal config level. If something in SSH
terminates at an unexpected point, things can be messed up. Reset should
fix this, but apparently not.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it LOL.
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 06:23:03PM -0700, Linus Sphinx wrote:
> It's always permissions. B-)
>
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 3:27 PM Gary <saclug(a)garymcglinn.com> wrote:
>
> > So, I've put some more time into this. After learning a lot, I got
my ssh
> > -g -R port to connect using the
systemd user unit. But, when I try
to use
> > the port, the connection is made, but
hangs before the password
prompt. I
> > see lots of examples that look just
like what I am doing that
apparently
> > work fine LOL.
> >
> > I was just at the system I want to connect to, after my most recent
> > changes, and ssh to my remote system and could connect back using -p
xxx
> > localhost. So the tunnel worked, at
least once.
> >
> > Now, I'm at the remote system. I try ssh -pxxx localhost, and it
just
> > hangs after the client sends the
banner. I think this is same as
before.
> >
> > So, when I run my ExecStart command from the command line, it
works.
But
> > when running it inside a systemd unit,
I have this issue.
> >
> > It can't be firewall. It can't be network or DNS vs. straight IP.
It
> > can't be almost anything except
systemd. But there is nothing in
the logs.
> >
> > I'm thinking the next step is wiresharking everything. But that
sounds
> > painful.
> >
> > Having written cron jobs in the past, I'm sort of used to this kind
of
> > mystery. Same with rc.local stuff,
sort of. So it isn't the
ultimate
> > condemnation. But, like, it should
work LOL.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 10:58:40PM -0800, Gary wrote:
> > > I've felt that sisvinit is really all you need for a laptop or
desktop,
> > or possibly even a stand alone server.
> > >
> > > But, after looking around, I took the path of least resistance and
began
> > using distros that use systemd.
> > >
> > > Systemd has a lot of issues. It's monolithic. They went and built
> > something that is very flexible, and then used it a way that hardly
> > utilizes it. It is way more than someone with a laptop, desktop, or
server
> > really needs. It solves a problem that
is really only a problem for
> > someone who has lots of systems to maintain each of which may have
> > different configurations. Unfortunately, they didn't make this as
easy as
> > it should be; see not using flexibility
previouly mentioned.
> > >
> > > It does get around some of the awkwardness of rc.local, for
example. If
> > only I could get it to work. That was
an issue with rc.local too,as
I
> > recall.
> > >
> > > I'm thinking that if I get some time, I'll play around with it.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 08, 2025 at 07:09:03AM -0800, Charles Polisher wrote:
> > > > On 11/7/25 12:45, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
> > > > > Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and systemd should work
fine.
> Is
> > > > Slackware still on non systemd?
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > Slackware is still running on sysvinit. Years of
> > > experience with Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS,
> > > Red Hat, FreeBSD, ... haven't has a problem with
> > > sysvinit, have spent dozens of hours "supporting"
> > > systemd. I haven't experienced any tangible benefit,
> > > but from previous posts, and private conversations
> > > on this topic, you do. Could it be because you're
> > > a laptop user? I believe that laptops would be
> > > ideal for me, except that the keyboards are always
> > > a non-starter. I haven't ever tried a laptop
> > > keyboard that didn't make my fingers feel retarded.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chuck Polisher
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> >
> > --
> > -Gary
> >
> > It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> > a complex thing to make things simple.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
>
> --
> -Gary
>
> It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> a complex thing to make things simple.
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> _______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
26 Nov
26 Nov
11:52 a.m.
New subject: Systemd
Good to know.
I think part of the issue is that my network is flaky. So, my script or unit file has to
be more robust.
The port was down this morning. I added IgnoreSIGPIPE=no to the unit file and restarted
the service. On restart systemctl status was green, but journalctl showed that the port
forward was not established. So IgnoreSIGPIPE=no won't detect that.
Why this should default to yes is a bit of a mystery. man systemd.exec says it is because
this signal is generally only useful in shell scripts. But, I would think that if my
service gets one, I probably want to fix it.
In round two, I added ExitOnForwardFailed to my ssh command. This does force a restart by
the unit if the port forward isn't established. And I added some keepalive options.
It's been working for 4 hours now, which is kind of a record.
Things are looking up.
I looked at autossh, but I think I'll see if what I have works. It does show that
telling if ssh is actually functioning is a bit of an art. So, I guess I can't fault
systemd too much.
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 09:13:21PM -0800, Kevin Brisson wrote:
I use Ubuntu on my servers and have never had a
systemd / ssh issue.
Getting Tomcat to work with systemd can be tricky especially if your
startup sh script gets complex. I’m going to guess you probably have a
permissions issue. If you verified the config I go back and look at
permissions. I
Try changing the port, usually I run mine on 5150 or 2112. Some times like
one dude said earlier. Reinstall distro and start over. :(
On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 8:55 PM Gary <saclug(a)garymcglinn.com> wrote:
> I started down this path because I won't always be able to physically
> access the server and I don't want the -R port to stop working, as it is
> the only way I can access the system to do anything, as it is behind a
> firewall.
>
> If I just ran the ssh port forward in the background, I could get the
> famouns "pipe broken" error. I was hoping systemd would restart if this
> happened. I don't think it will, but I'll have to wait and see.
>
> I have the Restart=on-failure. With Restart=always, it wouldn't run and
> seemed to be restarting a lot. But, I didn't see any restart limit errors
> in the logs, so I'm not exactly sure what was up.
>
> Perhaps I'll look into the watchdog feature. I don't think this will get
> me anything though, since systemctl status thinks everything is fine and I
> have no reason to believe it wouldn't keep sending the necessary signal.
>
> I'm thinking I'll have to implement my own watchdog feature, which is what
> I was hoping to avoid.
>
> I had a lot of issues. I attributed these to systemd. Really, I think it
> was ssh. But it does seem that systemd is complex and might be a bit
> fragile. Lots of logging was generated but not visible. Gemini/Google
> suggest that these kind of "terminal configuration" issues can cause that
> problem. When things get fixed, the log entries are there, but it's not
> optimal.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 08:37:52PM -0800, Gary wrote:
> > Perhaps, but it seems to work intermittently and unpredictably. I
> looked for contention on the port, but couldn't find any.
> >
> > ....So, I rebooted the client and restarted the systemd unit/service on
> the server and everything works. Interestingly systemctl status for the
> unit showed that everything was OK before the restart, but nothing worked.
> >
> > During the course of all this I learned, what is perhaps obvious, that
> SSH does a lot of things at the terminal config level. If something in SSH
> terminates at an unexpected point, things can be messed up. Reset should
> fix this, but apparently not.
> >
> > That's my story and I'm sticking to it LOL.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 06:23:03PM -0700, Linus Sphinx wrote:
> > > It's always permissions. B-)
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 3:27 PM Gary <saclug(a)garymcglinn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > So, I've put some more time into this. After learning a lot, I
got
> my ssh
> > > > -g -R port to connect using the systemd user unit. But, when I try
> to use
> > > > the port, the connection is made, but hangs before the password
> prompt. I
> > > > see lots of examples that look just like what I am doing that
> apparently
> > > > work fine LOL.
> > > >
> > > > I was just at the system I want to connect to, after my most recent
> > > > changes, and ssh to my remote system and could connect back using -p
> xxx
> > > > localhost. So the tunnel worked, at least once.
> > > >
> > > > Now, I'm at the remote system. I try ssh -pxxx localhost, and it
> just
> > > > hangs after the client sends the banner. I think this is same as
> before.
> > > >
> > > > So, when I run my ExecStart command from the command line, it
> works. But
> > > > when running it inside a systemd unit, I have this issue.
> > > >
> > > > It can't be firewall. It can't be network or DNS vs.
straight IP.
> It
> > > > can't be almost anything except systemd. But there is nothing in
> the logs.
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking the next step is wiresharking everything. But that
> sounds
> > > > painful.
> > > >
> > > > Having written cron jobs in the past, I'm sort of used to this
kind
> of
> > > > mystery. Same with rc.local stuff, sort of. So it isn't the
> ultimate
> > > > condemnation. But, like, it should work LOL.
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 10:58:40PM -0800, Gary wrote:
> > > > > I've felt that sisvinit is really all you need for a laptop
or
> desktop,
> > > > or possibly even a stand alone server.
> > > > >
> > > > > But, after looking around, I took the path of least resistance
and
> began
> > > > using distros that use systemd.
> > > > >
> > > > > Systemd has a lot of issues. It's monolithic. They went
and built
> > > > something that is very flexible, and then used it a way that hardly
> > > > utilizes it. It is way more than someone with a laptop, desktop, or
> server
> > > > really needs. It solves a problem that is really only a problem for
> > > > someone who has lots of systems to maintain each of which may have
> > > > different configurations. Unfortunately, they didn't make this
as
> easy as
> > > > it should be; see not using flexibility previouly mentioned.
> > > > >
> > > > > It does get around some of the awkwardness of rc.local, for
> example. If
> > > > only I could get it to work. That was an issue with rc.local too,as
> I
> > > > recall.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm thinking that if I get some time, I'll play around
with it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 08, 2025 at 07:09:03AM -0800, Charles Polisher
wrote:
> > > > > > On 11/7/25 12:45, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
> > > > > > > Install Fedora 43 from a clean install and systemd
should work
> fine.
> > > > Is
> > > > > > > Slackware still on non systemd?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brian
> > > > > > Slackware is still running on sysvinit. Years of
> > > > > > experience with Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS,
> > > > > > Red Hat, FreeBSD, ... haven't has a problem with
> > > > > > sysvinit, have spent dozens of hours "supporting"
> > > > > > systemd. I haven't experienced any tangible benefit,
> > > > > > but from previous posts, and private conversations
> > > > > > on this topic, you do. Could it be because you're
> > > > > > a laptop user? I believe that laptops would be
> > > > > > ideal for me, except that the keyboards are always
> > > > > > a non-starter. I haven't ever tried a laptop
> > > > > > keyboard that didn't make my fingers feel retarded.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Chuck Polisher
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > -Gary
> > > > >
> > > > > It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> > > > > a complex thing to make things simple.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > -Gary
> > > >
> > > > It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> > > > a complex thing to make things simple.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> > > >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
>
> --
> -Gary
>
> It is a simple thing to make things complex,
> a complex thing to make things simple.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
>
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38
days inactive
296
days old
13 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Brian E. Lavender -
Charles Polisher -
Gary -
Kevin Brisson -
Linus Sphinx