Yes, that is systemd and more or less what I did. It more or less works, until SELinux crashes the party.

I'm OK with you "just add a ?.service file....." as being simple. But then you just .. and you just ... after a certain number of steps, it's not simple. In most cases, the .service file calls the executable and they like a link from systemd/system directory to the .service file, instead of putting it there.

So, you do what you suggest and your script dies because it needs the firewall and the firewall hasn't started. So now you are adding another just.... The documentation is not user friendly (by my standards, it sucks), so you're off googling. And trying to figure out who has their head in a place where the sun doesn't shine :) It's really bad, and I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore LOL

Have you tried to write a systemd service/unit file?

It might not be hell on earth, but it is a lot more involved that just adding a script in rc.local IMHO. And rc.local runs last, or ran last, and everything else is already running, which is usually pretty nice.

On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 10:46:44AM -0700, bob r wrote:

In Ubuntu, you just put a ?.service file in /usr/lib/systemd/system There are probably already some examples there that you can use to see how it's done. For example, when I run the tomcat 10 installation I get: /usr/lib/systemd/system/tomcat10.service which causes tomcat to start when I reboot.

Then you have to run sudo systemctl daemon-reload Eventually you will see a copy of the file in /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants and your service will now run after you reboot ( or simply run sudo systemctl start <your_new_service_name>.service )

Isn't this how it works on other flavors of linux?

On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 9:31 AM Gary saclug@garymcglinn.com wrote:

...

Before, I could just add things to rc.local if I wanted them to run at start up.According to the systemd docs, I should still be able to do that.

According to the web, and my experience, it doesn't work.

NP. I'll just make a systemd unit and do it right. There are 12 different kinds. Trying to read the docs and figure out what to do is going to be fun. I just copy a template from the web that is suppose to do what I want. There apparently aren't any tools to make this easier because, "It's all really simple already." Conceptually, it does look fairly straightforward, if I had the info I needed. Which is probably there. I just have to do a lot of reading and get a lot of religion.

My executable runs and does what I want. Let's fire up the systemd service and see what happens. Oh, SELinux happens.

I haven't played with SELinux. Perhaps now is a good time to learn. I am somewhat curious why the SELinux interface tells me a temporary workaround and not a permanent fix. But, with what it does tell me, I figure I have to learn about SELinux policies.

Are you kidding me?

I have to install an _devel package. I can follow the cookie cutter script, which has 10 nontrivial steps. I start, but I don't get the results that the script tells me I should. Since I don't know what I'm doing, I have no idea if this will be a problem or not.

There are only 10 or so man pages I need to read. I'm sure none of them are short.

How long has this stuff been around now?

Am I missing something? Because it looks like something I stepped in once.

We went from adding a line in a file, to all this. It is allegedly more secure.But it looks to me that things could be a lot easier and someone made a big mistake somewhere.

I haven't decided how I'll proceed. I either turn off SELinux and start my stuff automatically. Or keep starting it manually, as I do now. It's on a box I like to keep secure, so there is that.

Is there a way out or around that I have missed? _______________________________________________ Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts@bigbrie.com To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave@bigbrie.com

Sometimes I'm just having one of those days.

But, I did get some good out of it :) Thanks for your comment.

I found out about Linux LSM's. Linux Security Modules for the Kernel. In addition to SELinux, there are at least 4 others. I think I'll look into SMACK, Simplified Manditory Access Control Kernel.

But it will take time. Or "when I get around to it."

I'm somewhat less motivated to get away from systemd. But I still may. I don't see the motivation behind the changes. I had similar feeling years back in the code repo world. I never did see the reason for svn and kind of ignored it. There was similar pushback. And it had a few problems and didn't make it. rcs, cvs, svn, git. Git seems to have some legs and will stick around. And it made changes that I valued and could understand. Same for cvs.

Maybe something else will come along after systemd.

I am going to try to get the systemd unit I wrote to work and do what I want. Maybe I'm doing something stupid.

On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 05:42:44PM -0700, bob r wrote:

Oh and "Get off my lawn!" 😆😆😆

On March 13, 2025 12:53:45 PM Gary saclug@garymcglinn.com wrote:

...

Yes, that is systemd and more or less what I did. It more or less works, until SELinux crashes the party.

I'm OK with you "just add a ?.service file....." as being simple. But then you just .. and you just ... after a certain number of steps, it's not simple. In most cases, the .service file calls the executable and they like a link from systemd/system directory to the .service file, instead of putting it there.

So, you do what you suggest and your script dies because it needs the firewall and the firewall hasn't started. So now you are adding another just.... The documentation is not user friendly (by my standards, it sucks), so you're off googling. And trying to figure out who has their head in a place where the sun doesn't shine :) It's really bad, and I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore LOL

Have you tried to write a systemd service/unit file?

It might not be hell on earth, but it is a lot more involved that just adding a script in rc.local IMHO. And rc.local runs last, or ran last, and everything else is already running, which is usually pretty nice.

On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 10:46:44AM -0700, bob r wrote:

...

In Ubuntu, you just put a ?.service file in /usr/lib/systemd/system There are probably already some examples there that you can use to see how it's done. For example, when I run the tomcat 10 installation I get: /usr/lib/systemd/system/tomcat10.service which causes tomcat to start when I reboot.

Then you have to run sudo systemctl daemon-reload Eventually you will see a copy of the file in /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants and your service will now run after you reboot ( or simply run sudo systemctl start <your_new_service_name>.service )

Isn't this how it works on other flavors of linux?

On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 9:31 AM Gary saclug@garymcglinn.com wrote:

...

Before, I could just add things to rc.local if I wanted them to run at start up.According to the systemd docs, I should still be able to do that.

According to the web, and my experience, it doesn't work.

NP. I'll just make a systemd unit and do it right. There are 12 different kinds. Trying to read the docs and figure out what to do is going to be fun. I just copy a template from the web that is suppose to do what I want. There apparently aren't any tools to make this easier because, "It's all really simple already." Conceptually, it does look fairly straightforward, if I had the info I needed. Which is probably there. I just have to do a lot of reading and get a lot of religion.

My executable runs and does what I want. Let's fire up the systemd service and see what happens. Oh, SELinux happens.

I haven't played with SELinux. Perhaps now is a good time to learn. I am somewhat curious why the SELinux interface tells me a temporary workaround and not a permanent fix. But, with what it does tell me, I figure I have to learn about SELinux policies.

Are you kidding me?

I have to install an _devel package. I can follow the cookie cutter script, which has 10 nontrivial steps. I start, but I don't get the results that the script tells me I should. Since I don't know what I'm doing, I have no idea if this will be a problem or not.

There are only 10 or so man pages I need to read. I'm sure none of them are short.

How long has this stuff been around now?

Am I missing something? Because it looks like something I stepped in once.

We went from adding a line in a file, to all this. It is allegedly more secure.But it looks to me that things could be a lot easier and someone made a big mistake somewhere.

I haven't decided how I'll proceed. I either turn off SELinux and start my stuff automatically. Or keep starting it manually, as I do now. It's on a box I like to keep secure, so there is that.

Is there a way out or around that I have missed? _______________________________________________ Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts@bigbrie.com To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave@bigbrie.com

---

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That put a smile on my face. Now where are my glasses LOL?

This is the 21st Century. They told me everything would be easy and I'd have a flying car.

I'm disappointed :)

I'll give your suggestion a try.

I'm trying to simplify my life. It's hard to do when they keep making you spend time 'cause they redo things that already work just fine. Just sayin'.

I wish someone would say something nice about the 22nd Century. I mean, something beside we'll all be underwater and the seas will be boiling. Like maybe that I'll have a flying car and everything will be easy!

It's nice to have something to look forward to.

On a more serious note, I've been wondering if there is some SOAP effect here. The actual framework/protocol is easy, but the tools make it hard. It seemed really messed up that things want multiuser target and there is no target after that. So, that if you need to run after something that wants multiuser, you have to do an after. I was looking into trying to define a target after everything runs and then just have my unit want or requre that.

I'm still learning this stuff. Old retired people can't learn either. Better to just put them on the porch. Your solution sounds easier, but with some subtleties. Retired people are always talking abut the past and how good it was. Makes people feel like they are hearing old Soviet propaganda. Oh, that's right, you have no idea what that is like LOL.

This is the best of all possible worlds---Dr. Pangloss. --My sides hurt.

It's difficult being old and sick and stupid and a drag on society. What was I before? Oh yea, I saved more money than I earned. Wait, that kinda sounds like a drag on things. Keynes thought so. Oh that's right, I almost forgot (old people are always forgetting things) he's wrong. We still use his ideas (I can tell because I remember...), we just call them different things. I'm confused. But now, I spend more money than I earn. I must have things backward.

Apparently having someone serve you food in a restaurant is good for the economy. But having someone serve you food in a "retirement community" is a drag on society because that person could be serving someone food in a restaurant.

I'm so confused. Must be because I'm old and retired.

It's hard being old and stupid and not doing what I'm told.

I have a nice seat on my front porch. Maybe it will be sunny later.

--Just having some fun with my morning coffee :)

n Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 07:34:18PM -0000, Kevin B wrote:

Gary, computers are hard and shouldn't be used by retired folks. :) Run it like below, it will load last. Use AI for docs - much easier and faster than our brains.

Type=idle

Behavior of idle is very similar to simple; however, actual execution of the service program is delayed until all active jobs are dispatched. This may be used to avoid interleaving the output of shell services with the status output on the console. Note that this type is useful only to improve console output, it is not useful as a general unit ordering tool, and the effect of this service type is subject to a 5s timeout, after which the service program is invoked anyway.

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html

Kevin _______________________________________________ Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts@bigbrie.com To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave@bigbrie.com

No harm.

There is some truth in sterotypes. But they usually don't apply to everyone targeted at all times. That's all.

For my whole career at UCD, I never told anyone when my birthday was. I didn't want to draw attention to the fact that I was quite a bit older than most of the other programmers at my point in my career. So being the subject of the monthly birthday celebration was kinda out of the question. I started programming for pay when I was about 45. I'm being compared to someone who started at 22 and is 45. I had to find a niche. And I did. For about 15 years.

Age discrimination is a fact of life. Partly justified by the fact that the sytem trys to pay us more or we expect more pay than someone younger. I was luckly in that when I left Silicon Valley, at around 40, my plan was to make minimum wage until I retired. I'd just do something, hopefully that I enjoyed, and I'd be OK. I got lucky in that I did better than minimum wage, found an interesting career path doing things that I still enjoy in retirement. I got unlucky in that my situation at work turned sour. The silver lining was that I could retire early because I had earned more than minimum wage.

I'm not saying that this is a shining example of a career path that other people should follow. But I am saying that I looked at what I was doing and what I wanted. That causes two things:to look at what you are doing, and more importantly, to look at what you want.

Then, you have to be real, and realistic, and come up with a plan.

When I was young, in my first career, I bet on the fact that we would make chips in the US. I mean, it was obvious to me that we had too. And, turns out, I was right about that. But that didn't stop all the jobs from going away. All of them. I had to do something. Right. OK, so I was right and now they want chip fab back. It's bittersweet for me. I wish them luck. But it made me face reality real hard, instead of the fantasy world of what "should be".

That's my experience. Your mileage may vary. Good luck and Godspeed.

I'm still open to suggestions on what I want to be when I grow up.

And, I've been getting some specs together and starting to move on the boat. I'm thinking that the 1980 diesel can probably be fixed. But, it turns out, I can replace it with electric for less. And it will be quieter and all that. It's a sailboat, right. I asked Gemini, seriously, I did, if I was crazy to fix up a boat that old. It told me to go for it. Almost literally. I was leaning that way anyhow.

BTW, I originally bought the boat to get away from room mates when I was working in the valley. I'd been exposed to sailing when I was young, so it was an easy fit.

Thanks for the encouragement :)

O a asle On Sat, Mar 15, 2025 at 02:04:00PM -0700, Kevin Brisson wrote:

Hello Gary-

I meant no harm in my comment. It was all sarcasm. You actually retired at the right time and it's better to stay busy when retired. If you don't use it you will lose it. I have mixed emotions about getting old. I was let go because of my age recently after 24 years on the job, and it has me thinking about what I want to do for the remainder of my life. I can either be a cynic or try to make the best of it. It depends on how I feel I guess. I'm 54 and trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. BTW fix your damn boat so Brian can fly us to your boat and then we can go cruise the bay. :)

Keivn

On Sat, Mar 15, 2025 at 9:42 AM Gary saclug@garymcglinn.com wrote:

...

That put a smile on my face. Now where are my glasses LOL?

This is the 21st Century. They told me everything would be easy and I'd have a flying car.

I'm disappointed :)

I'll give your suggestion a try.

I'm trying to simplify my life. It's hard to do when they keep making you spend time 'cause they redo things that already work just fine. Just sayin'.

I wish someone would say something nice about the 22nd Century. I mean, something beside we'll all be underwater and the seas will be boiling. Like maybe that I'll have a flying car and everything will be easy!

It's nice to have something to look forward to.

On a more serious note, I've been wondering if there is some SOAP effect here. The actual framework/protocol is easy, but the tools make it hard. It seemed really messed up that things want multiuser target and there is no target after that. So, that if you need to run after something that wants multiuser, you have to do an after. I was looking into trying to define a target after everything runs and then just have my unit want or requre that.

I'm still learning this stuff. Old retired people can't learn either. Better to just put them on the porch. Your solution sounds easier, but with some subtleties. Retired people are always talking abut the past and how good it was. Makes people feel like they are hearing old Soviet propaganda. Oh, that's right, you have no idea what that is like LOL.

This is the best of all possible worlds---Dr. Pangloss. --My sides hurt.

It's difficult being old and sick and stupid and a drag on society. What was I before? Oh yea, I saved more money than I earned. Wait, that kinda sounds like a drag on things. Keynes thought so. Oh that's right, I almost forgot (old people are always forgetting things) he's wrong. We still use his ideas (I can tell because I remember...), we just call them different things. I'm confused. But now, I spend more money than I earn. I must have things backward.

Apparently having someone serve you food in a restaurant is good for the economy. But having someone serve you food in a "retirement community" is a drag on society because that person could be serving someone food in a restaurant.

I'm so confused. Must be because I'm old and retired.

It's hard being old and stupid and not doing what I'm told.

I have a nice seat on my front porch. Maybe it will be sunny later.

--Just having some fun with my morning coffee :)

n Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 07:34:18PM -0000, Kevin B wrote:

...

Gary, computers are hard and shouldn't be used by retired folks. :) Run

it like below, it will load last. Use AI for docs - much easier and faster than our brains.

...

Type=idle

Behavior of idle is very similar to simple; however, actual execution of

the service program is delayed until all active jobs are dispatched. This may be used to avoid interleaving the output of shell services with the status output on the console. Note that this type is useful only to improve console output, it is not useful as a general unit ordering tool, and the effect of this service type is subject to a 5s timeout, after which the service program is invoked anyway.

...

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html

...

Kevin _______________________________________________ Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts@bigbrie.com To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave@bigbrie.com

---

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