24 Mar
2022
24 Mar
'22
11:42 p.m.
I've noticed that if I don't do a reply-all, my replies don't go to the list,
only to the other party.
That usually isn't what I want.
FYI
-Gary
25 Mar
25 Mar
12:06 a.m.
Quoting Gary (saclug(a)garymcglinn.com):
I've noticed that if I don't do a reply-all,
my replies don't go to
the list, only to the other party.
That usually isn't what I want.
Reply-all is everywhere and always the right choice for a public reply
to a mailing list. Reply-sender is everywhere and always the right
choice for a private reply offlist as a departure from a mailing list.
Blessedly, unlike some novice-centric mailing lists, lug-nuts doesn't
screw around with the headers just so people unclear on how the real
Internet works can use the wrong reply command and never learn the use
of the correct one. Prior to 2001, there was a minority position,
advanced by technophobes, that such screwing around with headers was The
Right Thing.
In 2001, IETF ended the debate, with two RFCs clarifying that, no, that
is not the correct use of that technology. And that was that.
Except, here we are, 21 years later, and even though the argument died
and got buried, there's always someone wanting to resurrect it.
Thank you, Brian, for sticking to IETF standards.
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/netiquette.html#replyto
http://linuxmafia.com/pub/skeptic/skeptic_faq.html#reply
12:55 a.m.
The list with the reply to sender by default sort of accidentally got configured that way.
You can press the capitol L in mutt to reply to list. I do notice some issues that keep
coming to my email saying that there is an issue with the rest interface. Someday, i will
dig into that. I like top posting. 👍 And, using emojis...
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
3:05 p.m.
Sigh.
I just noticed that a lot of replies to my comments don't have the list copied. So,
the list doesn't see them and I can't reply to the list without explicitly adding
them. I don't think this is the intention of the respondent.
I don' see this issue with other list. Of course, list seem to be going away in favor
of something else, maybe Twitter. Maybe Facebook. I'll never willingly enter into
that kind of relationship with a corporation. But, such as you please.
I guess there is some diversity of opinion on how the list should work. Hopefully the
list members are now aware of the issue and can publish their replies such that they have
the intended audience.
Some rules are bad. Why did I drive 55 mph for all those years? It may have had it's
good points, but it didn't achieve its goal, it took me longer, a lot longer, to get
everywhere I went, and, it turns out, a lot more people actually died. It increased
revenue from speeding tickets.
I like emails with the new comment or response at the top too.
Generally, I have a lack of respect for most authority. Probably because not many rules
get made the way I would like. But I do abide them.
If Jeff Bezos had followed the rules and paid sales tax when Amazon started selling books,
he'd be broke today.
-Gary
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 05:55:05PM -0700, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
The list with the reply to sender by default sort of
accidentally got configured that way. You can press the capitol L in mutt to reply to
list. I do notice some issues that keep coming to my email saying that there is an issue
with the rest interface. Someday, i will dig into that. I like top posting. 👍 And, using
emojis...
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
4:03 p.m.
I think people will figure out that you have to explicitly reply-to the
list if you want to go to the list rather than specifically to the
poster.
On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 08:05:54AM -0700, Gary wrote:
Sigh.
I just noticed that a lot of replies to my comments don't have the list copied. So,
the list doesn't see them and I can't reply to the list without explicitly adding
them. I don't think this is the intention of the respondent.
I don' see this issue with other list. Of course, list seem to be going away in
favor of something else, maybe Twitter. Maybe Facebook. I'll never willingly enter
into that kind of relationship with a corporation. But, such as you please.
I guess there is some diversity of opinion on how the list should work. Hopefully the
list members are now aware of the issue and can publish their replies such that they have
the intended audience.
Some rules are bad. Why did I drive 55 mph for all those years? It may have had
it's good points, but it didn't achieve its goal, it took me longer, a lot longer,
to get everywhere I went, and, it turns out, a lot more people actually died. It
increased revenue from speeding tickets.
I like emails with the new comment or response at the top too.
Generally, I have a lack of respect for most authority. Probably because not many rules
get made the way I would like. But I do abide them.
If Jeff Bezos had followed the rules and paid sales tax when Amazon started selling
books, he'd be broke today.
-Gary
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 05:55:05PM -0700, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
--
Brian Lavender
http://www.brie.com/brian/
"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other
way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
Professor C. A. R. Hoare
The 1980 Turing award lecture
The list with the reply to sender by default sort
of accidentally got configured that way. You can press the capitol L in mutt to reply to
list. I do notice some issues that keep coming to my email saying that there is an issue
with the rest interface. Someday, i will dig into that. I like top posting. 👍 And, using
emojis...
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
4:08 p.m.
We've had this discussion before. I remember good arguments pro and good
arguments against. I think we decided that the list owner gets to
decide, and the rest of us live with it.
Roberto
On 3/25/22 9:03 AM, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
I think people will figure out that you have to
explicitly reply-to the
list if you want to go to the list rather than specifically to the
poster.
On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 08:05:54AM -0700, Gary wrote:
> Sigh.
>
> I just noticed that a lot of replies to my comments don't have the list copied.
So, the list doesn't see them and I can't reply to the list without explicitly
adding them. I don't think this is the intention of the respondent.
>
> I don' see this issue with other list. Of course, list seem to be going away in
favor of something else, maybe Twitter. Maybe Facebook. I'll never willingly enter
into that kind of relationship with a corporation. But, such as you please.
>
> I guess there is some diversity of opinion on how the list should work. Hopefully
the list members are now aware of the issue and can publish their replies such that they
have the intended audience.
>
> Some rules are bad. Why did I drive 55 mph for all those years? It may have had
it's good points, but it didn't achieve its goal, it took me longer, a lot longer,
to get everywhere I went, and, it turns out, a lot more people actually died. It
increased revenue from speeding tickets.
>
> I like emails with the new comment or response at the top too.
>
> Generally, I have a lack of respect for most authority. Probably because not many
rules get made the way I would like. But I do abide them.
>
> If Jeff Bezos had followed the rules and paid sales tax when Amazon started selling
books, he'd be broke today.
>
> -Gary
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 05:55:05PM -0700, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
>> The list with the reply to sender by default sort of accidentally got configured
that way. You can press the capitol L in mutt to reply to list. I do notice some issues
that keep coming to my email saying that there is an issue with the rest interface.
Someday, i will dig into that. I like top posting. 👍 And, using emojis...
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> _______________________________________________
> Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
4:14 p.m.
I'm fine with that.
I really appreciate all the time and effort people who support the group expend.
It is nice having the list back!
Thanks to all!
-Gary
On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 09:08:05AM -0700, Roberto Leibman wrote:
We've had this discussion before. I remember good
arguments pro and good
arguments against. I think we decided that the list owner gets to decide,
and the rest of us live with it.
Roberto
On 3/25/22 9:03 AM, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
I think people will figure out that you have to
explicitly reply-to the
list if you want to go to the list rather than specifically to the
poster.
On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 08:05:54AM -0700, Gary wrote:
> Sigh.
>
> I just noticed that a lot of replies to my comments don't have the list copied.
So, the list doesn't see them and I can't reply to the list without explicitly
adding them. I don't think this is the intention of the respondent.
>
> I don' see this issue with other list. Of course, list seem to be going away in
favor of something else, maybe Twitter. Maybe Facebook. I'll never willingly enter
into that kind of relationship with a corporation. But, such as you please.
>
> I guess there is some diversity of opinion on how the list should work. Hopefully
the list members are now aware of the issue and can publish their replies such that they
have the intended audience.
>
> Some rules are bad. Why did I drive 55 mph for all those years? It may have had
it's good points, but it didn't achieve its goal, it took me longer, a lot longer,
to get everywhere I went, and, it turns out, a lot more people actually died. It
increased revenue from speeding tickets.
>
> I like emails with the new comment or response at the top too.
>
> Generally, I have a lack of respect for most authority. Probably because not many
rules get made the way I would like. But I do abide them.
>
> If Jeff Bezos had followed the rules and paid sales tax when Amazon started selling
books, he'd be broke today.
>
> -Gary
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 05:55:05PM -0700, Brian E. Lavender wrote:
> > The list with the reply to sender by default sort of accidentally got
configured that way. You can press the capitol L in mutt to reply to list. I do notice
some issues that keep coming to my email saying that there is an issue with the rest
interface. Someday, i will dig into that. I like top posting. 👍 And, using emojis...
> > --
> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> > To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
> _______________________________________________
> Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
_______________________________________________
Lug-nuts mailing list -- lug-nuts(a)bigbrie.com
To unsubscribe send an email to lug-nuts-leave(a)bigbrie.com
5:41 p.m.
Quoting Roberto Leibman (roberto(a)leibman.net):
We've had this discussion before. I remember good
arguments pro and
good arguments against. I think we decided that the list owner gets
to decide, and the rest of us live with it.
Fortunately, mutt automatically ignores "munging", so it doesn't hurt
me, either way. It hurts only the people who repeatedly get surprised
by their very private side-discussions, that they intended to send
off-list, getting forced into public.
Some things are matters of opinion, but this is not: IETF settled the
notorious controversy 21 years ago, ruling in two RFCs that "munging" is
inappropriate, and introducing the List-Post: header to designate to
software the method for posting to a mailing list.
At that time, Neale Pickett explained briefly, in plain English, how the
technical problem got resolved, and why it's a dead argument. Please see.
http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-still-harmful.html
5:32 p.m.
Quoting Gary (saclug(a)garymcglinn.com):
I just noticed that a lot of replies to my comments
don't have the
list copied. So, the list doesn't see them and I can't reply to the
list without explicitly adding them. I don't think this is the
intention of the respondent.
So, isn't about time those people learned there are _two_ reply
commands, and what each is for? (This doesn't count occasional extra,
specialised modes, such as the mutt 'L" command Brian alluded to.)
I don' see this issue with other list.
Despite the IETF's ruling 21 years ago, it's common to see forcing
("munging") on mailing lists dominated by technophobes. So, if you're
not on tech-heavy mailing lists, standards-compliant e-mail may be
unfamiliar.
I guess there is some diversity of opinion on how the
list should work.
Sure. You versus the experts who define SMTP standards.
Meanwhile, learn to use reply-all on mailing lists (reply-sender to
depart from a public thread into private mail), as it's always
appropriate.
1017
days inactive
1018
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8 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Brian E. Lavender -
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Rick Moen -
Roberto Leibman